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bigoleBEEMer

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Posts : 32
Join date : 2008-07-30
Location : IA US

PostSubject: proposed dkp   Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:51 pm

raids take place 5:30-8:30pac, 8:30-11:30est. if you are at the start of the raid you get 1dkp. if you stay in raid for 2 hours or or until planed boss(es) drop you get 1dkp (whichever is first). it will be possible to get 2 points per raid day. 4 or 5 raids like this a week. also 1 or 2 raids a week with no points gained/spent (need/greed). points are bid openly between like classes once chest is looted (and everyone in raid passes). each t1 and t2 drop requires at least 3dkp, if you are the only player of your class you and have only 0-3dkp you must spend all of what you have. NOTE-if two players of a class have equal points and want, both players will put up all their points and we will draw numbers. winner gets item, looser keeps their points. also 10 100x stacks of t1,2,3 building mats are worth 1dkp once a week for people that cannot attend.

it is the responsibility of the player to check for accuracy of the dkp chart before raid begins. once raid begins only points on the chart will be available for bidding.
points will be added and updated after raid is finished, and chart will reflect updates at least 1 hour prior to next raid.


Last edited by bigoleBEEMer on Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:23 pm; edited 6 times in total
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numnutsius

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Join date : 2008-11-30
Age : 53

PostSubject: Re: proposed dkp   Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:41 pm

Only problem I see with this is, you can get 2 dkp in a 3-4 hour period. But your looking at 5-6 hours gathering to just get 1 point. Unless they buy it off the trader. Maybe the gathering could be looked at again. Perhaps changing it to 5 X 100 I've done alot of gathering on here and it is very time consuming. Just a thought Wink
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Malise

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Join date : 2008-09-10

PostSubject: Re: proposed dkp   Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:19 pm

Only problem i c is the open bid system, where ppl will try to 1 up or always want to bid last so they dont use alot of points. Worst case scenario the person hates the guy and wants them to spend as much points possible.
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Moosegosinya



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Join date : 2008-10-23

PostSubject: Re: proposed dkp   Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:41 pm

I would say a silent bid would be best, with a tiebreaker of somesort. That way, if you really really want it, you'll likely spend most of your points rather than the minimum required since you have no idea how many points anyone else is going to bid.

Example, loot drops

Person A bids 30 points
Person B bids 25 points


26 Points are deducted from Person A and he gets the item.

My 2 cents anyway.

Also, if we have people actually hating other members in here, the DKP controversy is the least of our problems. Some of us dont get along the greatest, , but hate is a pretty strong word.
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Alex de Large



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Join date : 2008-10-24

PostSubject: Re: proposed dkp   Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:55 pm

just to refresh my memory.

wasnt there meant to be a commission formed to make this system, and who were they?

is ereton and debos only monitoring the system once its in-place?

and where is it listed about resourcing for dkp? i remember you posting something in /gu but i dont recall the specifics.

also.. no dkp for seige's?
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Alex de Large



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PostSubject: Re: proposed dkp   Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:25 pm

im very inclined to a closed bidding system, with a minimum bid to win even if you are alone. at least 1 point, possibly the point you would gain for having attended.

i also dont like the "if someone has 25 and you have 30 you must bid 26," thing. If you want it so badly that you want to make sure you get it.. then bid 26. You could also argue the point that you dont expect even the 25 point person to bid 25 for a thing if they want it. You could expect them to bid 10 or 15. So maybe you want to bid 12 and take your chances against them, and possibly save points.

closed auction/bid ftw. minimum bottom
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Moosegosinya



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Join date : 2008-10-23

PostSubject: Re: proposed dkp   Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:42 am

Alex de Large wrote:
im very inclined to a closed bidding system, with a minimum bid to win even if you are alone. at least 1 point, possibly the point you would gain for having attended.

i also dont like the "if someone has 25 and you have 30 you must bid 26," thing. If you want it so badly that you want to make sure you get it.. then bid 26. You could also argue the point that you dont expect even the 25 point person to bid 25 for a thing if they want it. You could expect them to bid 10 or 15. So maybe you want to bid 12 and take your chances against them, and possibly save points.

closed auction/bid ftw. minimum bottom

I do believe this is where i was going with this. By silent i mean closed i guess. The point being, the other people dont know what you are bidding, and you dont know what they are bidding. (the idea being that the last person bidding is always going to win if they have the most points in an open bid). But, let me go to the extreme on this, say you bid 100 points, and someone else bids 20, do you want to lose 100 points or 21? The point of the points (no pun intended) is that the people with the most points get more loot more often since they are there more often than the ones without, so if i bid 100 points and lost those hundred, we're back to the same old argument, someone that is new is gonna get the next piece that i need since i lost them all on that last bid, negating the need for the point system altogether. This i think will help eliminate anyone racking up the bids, since there is a chance they will win the item if they bid too high, so yo ureally only bid if you want it. I also agree on a minimum point expenditure if you are the only bidder. Could even go so far as to assign minimum values based on teirs as well, 1 for T1, 2 for T2 or whatever.

On a slight tangent, I think some people are losing sight of the fact that the sooner we gear up the regulars, the sooner the casuals get geared up as well, since they'll have everything. Its not like people arent gonna see any loot for months or anything, we raid enough i think to prevent that, and lots of us already have a lot of the gear. Sure we might have 1000 points, but that likely means we havent bid on anything since we have it, so you'll get it. In a ballpark estimate, theres like 240 peices of loot in T1 and T2, and one character only needs 5-10ish if they dont get every T1 peice before moving to T2. Its late, im probably no making any sense, i'll shut up now and pray to the gods for a battle keep in the morning. I just dont have the ability to stay up and click anymore.
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bubba316



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Join date : 2008-12-20

PostSubject: Re: proposed dkp   Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:16 am

The is a commission and I think we need to sit down Wednesday night and finalize the system so it's in place now that the server merge is complete.

But it's also good to hear people's thoughts and concerns. No system will make everyone happy but a system that make no one happy is useless.
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jebediah

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PostSubject: Re: proposed dkp   Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:22 am

NO DKP FOR STACKS OF MATS
even limited amounts of dkp. Because certain people do certain things, it's not fair.
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Noroxus

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Location : Hawaii

PostSubject: Re: proposed dkp   Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:59 am

i like the open bidding system.. with a minimum bid that you have to spend even if you are the only one in your class.. the people who are interested in the piece of loot.. they take turns bidding and you must increase the bid by a minimum amount so there isnt bidding like this.. i bid 1... i bid 2... i bid 3... thats just silly... it has to increase in incraments of 2 or 3.. just my 2 cents.. ive been in a couple guilds where they use open bidding.. except they use bigger numbers for dkp.. like 20-50 points per boss kill.. and killing bosses is the only way to obtain points... with greater points rewarded you can increase the bidding scale.
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Nilocrules



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PostSubject: Re: proposed dkp   Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:06 am

I am also in favor of the silent auction or closed bidding system. It eliminates hard feelings and moves things along quickly.

Also, what about WHO gets in the raids. At this point it is a first come/first serve system, so someone who shows up 10 minutes before the raid may not get a spot, even if they have a ton of dkp or regularly raid. Are we going to put something in place to 'reserve' spots or maybe sign up for raids?
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jebediah

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PostSubject: Re: proposed dkp   Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:09 pm

Nilocrules wrote:
I am also in favor of the silent auction or closed bidding system. It eliminates hard feelings and moves things along quickly.

Also, what about WHO gets in the raids. At this point it is a first come/first serve system, so someone who shows up 10 minutes before the raid may not get a spot, even if they have a ton of dkp or regularly raid. Are we going to put something in place to 'reserve' spots or maybe sign up for raids?

i'm in favor of this as a 4 hour raid will effectively turn into a 5 hour raid as you would have to appear 1 hr ahead of time in order to secure a spot.

this is pretty simple to do. have a thread on the website for a signup for a particular day. the raidmaster just goes down the list to those that reserved a spot. if they are online they get an invite, if they aren't online at start they get -2 dkp for reserving and not showing up. Once everyone reserved is added the raidmaster will call out whoever wants an invite put an x in guild chat. the first people to put an x gets priority. once the raid is full if we need particular classes the raid master can add or remove people at his descretion. However if he/she is removed they will still get full dkp credit for the raid.
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Nilocrules



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PostSubject: Re: proposed dkp   Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:05 pm

BAsed on today's raid issues, I wanted to make sure that the dkp was clear. ONLY the 1st half of the raid counts for dkp. If someone comes in mid raid (i.e. when wing 1 is finished and we move to wing 2) no DKP will be given. While this seems a tad arbitray and contrary to what we discussed and agreed upon and what I understand the rules to read (see 1st post in this thread), I just want to be on the same page as everyone.

It really seems inequitable to have to pay dkp on a raid and not receive any dkp for being there for hours on end.
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